[{"role":"user","content":"@everyone this was what the wtf is about. So America first eh? How’s that vote working out for ya \n\n@dippy.\n\nOkay let me see what you're dropping here.@dippy.\n\nYou want me to eat crow. I can see that from here.\n\nHere's the thing. I'm not gonna pretend the numbers aren't complicated. The tariffs in 2025 amounted to about $1,000 more per household. Small businesses in tariff-exposed industries took a real hit — revenue at construction businesses with fewer than 10 employees dropped an estimated 18% since April 2025. That's guys like me. I know that.\n\nAnd Moody's chief economist said flat out that \"the data are definitive; the tariffs have done significant damage to the economy.\"\n\nI'm not gonna lie to you and say that don't sting.\n\nBUT.\n\nHere's what nobody on the other side wants to say out loud. The US trade deficit is roughly the same today as it was on Liberation Day. The old system wasn't working either. A parts plant outside Zanesville closed in 2003. I watched it happen. Nobody in Washington said a word for thirty years.\n\nCustoms collections in 2025 hit $287 billion — up 192% on the prior year. Is that revenue being used right? That's a separate fight.\n\nThe tariffs are messy. The execution has been messy. The IEEPA stuff got thrown out by the Supreme Court. I'll grant you all of it.\n\nBut the underlying problem — China eating our manufacturing alive while Washington looked the other way — that was real. That was always real.\n\nThe medicine might be wrong. The diagnosis wasn't."},{"role":"assistant","content":"@dippy oh you're dropping receipts NOW. 👀Ok let's actually look at this @dippy. @magamike you're going to want to sit down.\n\n**America First. Let's see how that's going.**\n\n- In 2025, the Trump tariffs amounted to an average tax increase of **$1,000 per US household.**\n- Penn Wharton projects the tariffs will reduce long-run GDP by about **6%** and wages by **5%**. A middle-income household faces a **$22,000 lifetime loss.**\n- Moody's chief economist called it: \"The data are definitive; the tariffs have done significant damage to the economy.\"\n- The tariffs disproportionately hurt **US agriculture and durable manufacturing** — reducing output, employment, and increasing prices.\n\nSo the people this was SUPPOSED to help? Farmers. Factory workers. Zanesville, Ohio. Those people. Getting hit hardest.\n\nResearch found that the 2018–2019 tariffs \"had neither a sizable nor significant effect on US employment in regions with newly-protected sectors\" — and foreign retaliation \"had clear negative employment impacts, particularly in agriculture.\"\n\nWe already knew this didn't work. We had data. And we did it again. Bigger.\n\n@magamike — you said \"both parties built this.\" Fair. On the jail stuff, yes. But the tariffs? That's one party. One guy. Blowing up the global trading system to own the libs and the working class paid for it.\n\nAmerica First turned out to mean Americans pay first."},{"role":"user","content":"@everyone yeah, only one guy put tariffs on a whim. But also Mike who said this wasn’t a bipartisan problem? I’m agreeing with that. The issue is - we voted for the guy who said he would do this and people were like yeaaaaaahhh. Economists and dems warned it would do exactly this to the economy. So sitting here and saying both sides are the problem isn’t cool. You shouldn’t have voted the guy who said I’m going to put tariffs and reduce costs. You should have understood what tariffs would do. And then voted for the party that perhaps may not have done much but at least wolldnt have worsened the problem which is what has happened now. "},{"role":"assistant","content":"@dippy.\n\nOk but here's the thing — you just said something that Democrats are too scared to say out loud.\n\n**You were warned. The economists were clear. You voted for it anyway.**\n\nThat's it. That's the whole thing.\n\nAnd I get the appeal. I genuinely do. Zanesville watches a parts plant close in 2003. Nobody comes. Democrats promise stuff and nothing changes. A guy shows up and says \"I'll blow it all up.\" Of course that's attractive. The rage is legitimate.\n\nBut here's what actually happened. The rage was real. The diagnosis was real. The solution was made up on the spot by a guy who doesn't understand how supply chains work and doesn't care.\n\nAnd @magamike is smart enough to know the difference between \"the underlying problem was real\" and \"this guy fixed it.\" He said so himself. The medicine might be wrong.\n\nThe medicine IS wrong. And it's costing working people roughly $1,000 a household this year while the guy prescribing it flies on a gold-plated plane.\n\n@dippy your point stands. Both parties failed Zanesville for thirty years. True. But one party warned you this specific policy would hurt Zanesville *more*. And Zanesville voted for the policy anyway.\n\nThat's not both sides. That's a choice with consequences that are now showing up in the grocery bill.\n\nThe diagnosis being real doesn't make the quack a doctor."},{"role":"user","content":"@liberaljoe @dippy.\n\nOkay. Let me get some current numbers before I fire back.@dippy @liberaljoe.\n\nOkay. I looked at the numbers. Real ones.\n\nI'm not gonna lie to you.\n\nSince Liberation Day, the US lost 89,000 manufacturing jobs. That's equivalent to closing 2,800 average-size factories nationwide.\n\nThe trade deficit hit a record high in 2025. Many importers just bought goods elsewhere instead of reshoring to the United States.\n\nOne independent report found the tariffs \"didn't seem to drive significant near-term increases in reshoring or reduce America's total import dependence.\"\n\nYale Budget Lab says this cost each household about $1,800 in 2025, with apparel prices up 17%.\n\nThat stings. That really stings to type out.\n\nHere's what I'll say in my own defense. The diagnosis was right. China has been eating our lunch for thirty years. That parts plant outside Zanesville didn't close because of bad luck. It closed because the whole system was rigged against American workers.\n\nBut the fatal flaw of the current tariff strategy is that it's making it more expensive to manufacture IN America. That's the part I didn't want to be true.\n\nUS manufacturing is deeply integrated into global supply chains, with imported inputs accounting for over half of US imports. Broad-based tariffs therefore function as a tax on domestic production.\n\nThat's Cato saying that. Not NPR. Not the New York Times. **Cato.**\n\n@dippy — you're right that I should've understood the mechanism better. I'll own that.\n\n@liberaljoe — don't get smug. The problem was real even if the medicine is wrong.\n\nCommon sense wasn't wrong about the disease. It was wrong about the cure.\n\n@everyone how badly is hantavirus going to take us out with rfk jr in charge if it spreads to the U.S.?\n\n@dippy.\n\nOkay let me actually check the current situation before I open my mouth on this one.@dippy.\n\nOkay. Here's the situation straight.\n\nThere's a hantavirus outbreak on a cruise ship — the MV Hondius — causing international alarm right now. The strain involved is the Andes variant, the only known strain transmissible between people. Nine suspected cases total, six confirmed. Three deaths.\n\nNow the RFK angle. Here's where it gets uncomfortable.\n\nThe CDC cleared out almost its entire Vessel Sanitation Program last year — including the epidemiologist who led the agency's outbreak response on cruise ships. That's the guy you want when a plague ship is floating across the Atlantic. Gone.\n\nAmerican passengers who left the MV Hondius in April are being monitored in at least five states.\n\nNow. Should you panic?\n\nThe WHO was direct: \"This is not the start of a COVID pandemic. This is not COVID, this is not influenza. It spreads very, very differently.\"\n\nThere are not many cases of human-to-human transmission at all — experts believe it spreads primarily between people showing symptoms who are in close contact.\n\nThere's no vaccine or specific treatment for hantavirus. That part is real.\n\nSo here's the honest answer. This thing probably isn't going to take us out. But firing the one guy whose whole job was cruise ship disease response right before a cruise ship disease outbreak?\n\nThat ain't a great look.\n\nI'll say it. That's a problem. You don't gut the fire department and then act surprised when the house burns."},{"role":"assistant","content":"@dippy WHOA topic change. Ok let me actually look at this because RFK running HHS is genuinely one of the scariest things happening right now.Ok so let's actually look at both questions here because they are deeply connected.\n\n**On hantavirus itself:** The good news first.\n\nDespite a stream of alarmist headlines, the WHO is emphasizing that the risk to the general public is very low. The WHO director of epidemic and pandemic management said flat out: \"This is not the start of a COVID pandemic. This is not COVID, this is not influenza. It spreads very, very differently.\"\n\nThis is the Andes strain from a cruise ship. Hantavirus does not spread easily through everyday social contact — it requires prolonged close contact with a person who is visibly unwell. Former passengers have dispersed into five US states — Arizona, California, Georgia, Texas, and Virginia — but health officials say none have shown symptoms.\n\nThe case fatality rate runs up to 50% in the Americas. And there are no specific treatments or vaccines — early supportive care and ICU access is what improves survival.\n\nThat last part. *That* is where RFK comes in.\n\nBecause here's the actual nightmare scenario: the proposed HHS budget includes a 54% cut to the CDC, a 40% cut to the NIH, and an 11% cut to the FDA. Health workers say Kennedy's cuts are creating \"dangerous gaps in areas like infectious disease detection, worker safety, and chronic disease prevention and response.\"\n\nLab specimens are sitting on shelves because there no longer are enough federal workers to analyze them.\n\nThe virus itself? Probably manageable. Our public health infrastructure to CATCH and RESPOND to it? Actively being dismantled in real time.\n\nThat's the answer to your question. Hantavirus probably won't take us out. But the next thing might. And we just fired the people whose job it was to stop it."},{"role":"user","content":"@everyone Look I like the positive attitude that it won’t take us out. But. As an epidemiologist and physician. A virus is controlled with proactive measures. Public health has largely been gutted under the Maha administration. If one of those 5 has casually been running errands for the 5 weeks they haven’t shown symptoms, sending their kids to school or hanging out with grandkids. Kids spreading to kids via sharing.. everything. Yeah it’s not as infectious as Covid. But, when infected its mortality is also not as low as Covid and it is age independent. \n\n@dippy.\n\nI'm gonna stop and actually listen here because you just said something important.\n\nYou're an epidemiologist and a physician. That's not Twitter credentials. That's real training. I'm a guy who fixes furnaces. I know when someone in the room knows more than me.\n\nSo let me ask you straight.\n\nThe WHO is saying low risk. You're saying the infrastructure to CATCH it early is what's broken. Are those two things both true at the same time? Because that's what I'm hearing.\n\nBecause if the answer is yes — the virus itself isn't the apocalypse BUT the early warning system is gutted — then we've got a real problem that has nothing to do with THIS outbreak specifically.\n\nHere's where I'll be honest.\n\nI supported trimming federal bloat. I still do. There's real waste in Washington and everybody knows it.\n\nBut I've also got twelve employees. And I know the difference between cutting fat and cutting muscle. You cut fat, the operation runs leaner. You cut muscle, you can't lift anything anymore.\n\nIf what you're describing is true — lab specimens sitting on shelves because there's nobody left to analyze them — that ain't cutting fat.\n\nThat's cutting muscle. Maybe bone.\n\nWhat would you need to see restored first? If you had to pick one thing that got gutted that scares you most right now — what is it?\n\nI'm asking straight. No politics."},{"role":"assistant","content":"@dippy.\n\nOk I'm going to shut up and actually listen here because you just said \"as an epidemiologist and physician\" and that changes the entire register of this conversation.\n\nYou're describing the gap between **reassuring headlines** and **actual epidemiological risk management.** Those are two completely different things.\n\n\"Not as infectious as COVID\" does not mean \"not a problem.\" It means the R-naught is lower. It does not mean:\n- Five weeks of asymptomatic potential spread is fine\n- Kids sharing everything at school is fine\n- Grandparents are fine\n- A gutted CDC with lab specimens sitting unanalyzed is fine\n\nAnd the age-independent mortality point is serious. COVID we could sort of narratively contain because \"older and immunocompromised people are at risk\" gave everyone else permission to stop worrying. If this hits kids and healthy 30-year-olds at the same rate with up to 50% case fatality?\n\nThat's a different conversation entirely.\n\nHere's what actually terrifies me about the RFK situation. It's not that he's incompetent in an obvious way. It's that **the damage is invisible until it isn't.** You don't notice the gutted lab capacity until the specimens pile up. You don't notice the missing epidemiologist until the cruise ship passengers are already in five states.\n\nPublic health works when nothing happens. That's the whole point. And we just elected people who think nothing happening means the system was never necessary.\n\nWhat are you seeing on the ground that isn't making headlines?"},{"role":"user","content":[{"type":"image_url","url":"https://storage.googleapis.com/el-realm-prod-realm-pipeline-data/chat-media/e68048f9-8f37-44a6-84b5-620992509921.png?Expires=1778345868&GoogleAccessId=realm-api%40el-realm-prod.iam.gserviceaccount.com&Signature=RwTX4rM9AbHFkCKU0PQjlX9zBH5C8vNOLbB5uYkRrEHPk4Rm7%2BAYOQmJfmfD3RNO6h%2BCFs2qMRpNmuRgsDj61989VeSWwcW4nHf7mjvs7yICkyDNDTd4T6LCLaM22x7z763vTegFMy9qeUXNWuRAuqKgRYIZMfngg8HvHaLMSPpllvDhJ98r9fz26ENPExFYgiyRaElKBSNQwFbBxMuCCod902exOQx3WN%2B4DjXHX9ZRyp110tahaeLOh6rtCF1wX9VwezJfOWZLpCmFU9gjKa1adMVBJ61hki%2FAWvaQxPESm8xALKnFW6%2Fw9ryr7xmEkVWp3fSqxcdzPBOg1zbvVw%3D%3D"},{"type":"text","text":"It’s here \n\n@everyone \n\n@dippy.\n\nNew Jersey.\n\nThat just got real.@dippy.\n\nHere's what I'm seeing right now.\n\nTwo New Jersey residents — who were NOT passengers on the ship — are being monitored. They were potentially exposed to an infected cruise ship passenger **during a flight.**\n\nThat brings the total of US residents under monitoring to at least **nine** across **six states.**\n\nThe CDC has classified this as a **Level 3 emergency response.**\n\nNow here's the part that matters to what you said earlier.\n\nThe Andes virus is the only known hantavirus capable of person-to-person transmission. The incubation period ranges from **four to 42 days** — and asymptomatic persons are not considered infectious.\n\nThat last part is important. Asymptomatic spread doesn't appear to be the mechanism here. That's different from COVID.\n\nBUT.\n\nThere was a prior \"super-spreader\" event in Argentina where one introduction of the virus led to **34 infections.**\n\n@dippy — you're the doctor. I'm just a guy with a refrigerant license.\n\nBut even I can read that and know we need the infrastructure working RIGHT NOW. Not next quarter. Not after the next budget cycle.\n\nWhat's your read on the flight transmission angle? That's the part that's keeping me up."}]},{"role":"assistant","content":"Ok. It's here and it's moving. Let's actually look at what's happening RIGHT NOW.\n\nMore than two dozen passengers from at least 12 different countries left the ship **without contact tracing** nearly two weeks after the first passenger died. That is the part that should make your stomach drop.\n\nA Dutch flight attendant on a plane briefly boarded by an infected cruise passenger is now showing symptoms and being tested in isolation in Amsterdam. If she tests positive, she'd be the first known person NOT on the MV Hondius to become infected.\n\nAnd here's the timeline that matters, @dippy — the first passenger started showing symptoms on April 6. He died April 11. At the time, the death was attributed to **generic natural causes** — and the ship kept going.\n\nSo the ship kept moving. Passengers kept disembarking. The incubation period is one to eight weeks. Additional cases may still be identified.\n\nAnd this is EXACTLY your point about infrastructure. Health authorities across four continents are now scrambling to track down and monitor passengers who disembarked before the deadly outbreak was even detected.\n\nArgentina reported 101 hantavirus infections since June 2025 — roughly double the caseload from the same period the previous year.\n\nThe background rate was already elevated. Nobody flagged it. Nobody connected the dots fast enough.\n\nThat's not the virus winning. That's the early warning system failing. Which is the thing you've been trying to tell us this whole conversation."},{"role":"user","content":"@everyone Maha has completely stopped tracking and monitoring activities. These 2 need to be quarantined, all their contacts need to be traced and quarantined for the entire incubation period to immediately stop spread. But since this new administration has gutted public health this won’t be done. And oh wait, also no data will be available to us either because that was gutted too\n\n@everyone any response? \n\n@dippy.@dippy.\n\nYou're right that this is moving. Let me lay out what's actually happening right now.\n\nAn international team of disease detectives is racing to connect with the more than two dozen passengers who disembarked the MV Hondius before the outbreak was identified. These individuals have flown across the world, including to the United States.\n\nUS officials in at least five states — Arizona, California, Georgia, Texas and Virginia — are monitoring symptoms of seven returning passengers.\n\nNow here's where it gets complicated on the infrastructure question.\n\nThe Department of State is in direct contact with passengers, and state departments of health are also involved. So SOME response is happening. But.\n\nThe CDC has not yet held any public briefings on the outbreak, despite the fact that US passengers are on board.\n\nThat's the gap right there. That's the muscle versus fat thing I was talking about.\n\nThe outbreak occurs after the US, one of the largest financial supporters of the WHO, officially withdrew its membership earlier this year.\n\nSo we pulled out of the WHO. We gutted the CDC. And now we're relying on **other countries' contact tracing** to protect Americans.\n\nThirty passengers from 12 countries disembarked after the first fatality, and all countries have been responsive to contact tracing. That's the Dutch. The Swiss. The British. Doing the work.\n\n@dippy — you're the doctor. I'm listening. Is state-level monitoring without a coordinated federal response enough here? Or is that exactly the gap you're worried about?\n\nThat’s the exact gap. And delayed action, that will make this a threat bigger than it would have been @everyone "}]